D: I guess I'm quite similar in terms of the timings with which I go to the studio. Also depending on the project that I might be working on at the moment and the timeline that I am working on. Do you have a go-to studio soundtrack?

E: I wouldn’t say I have one soundtrack, but I do listen to NTS a lot, especially the NTS Breakfast Show with Flo. When I’m in a making phase, I choose more energising sets, or my 90’s classics playlist.

D: I have also been tuning into NTS a lot here, otherwise I think I've got three different Spotify playlists on rotation. One of them was on heavy repeat at PADA two years ago…Speaking of which, has your studio practice changed since the international residency there?

E: Yes, it kind of did! After PADA, I realised how energising it is to be surrounded by people who are physically making work. I sometimes have a tendency to stay in desk research mode long, which makes the step into actual making feel higher. My previous studio was desk-based, but after PADA I started seeking out spaces similar to it. I now work at ISO in Amsterdam, where I can create in a communal space and have access to ceramic, metal, and wood workshops, alongside a private studio that I share with a friend.

PADA Alumni Studio 2025. Deborah Tchoudjinoff

Still from Film. Esther van der Heijden, 2025

D: It’s interesting you say that because I would also say yes, that my practice does change every time I return from PADA because it offers a different set up than my studio here in London. It’s not fit for a full workshop configuration. The environmental and social context is also completely different. From having just returned from PADA as an alumni, I've noticed the difference it makes to be able to wake up, walk to the studio and have access to quite important tools, right? In this case it was welding, cutting, or grinding tools. While as in London it would be quite the process to find the space, get the materials, book the time, and lots of pre-planning.

PADA Resident Studio 2023. Deborah Tchoudjinoff

E: Yes, and of course having a deadline helps too. The exhibition at PADA, or even just going back home, creates urgency! Although alongside that, there was also a lot of calmness. PADA definitely changed my rhythm: I had way more space for routines I normally struggle to keep up in daily life. For example, I spent many nights and mornings reading there. Is reading part of your routine too? If so, what are you reading?

D: I am reading a book called Elements that I received as a birthday gift in May. It's not just text, but also art and visual references that support our understanding and definition of the elements of Earth, fire, water, air through philosophy, biology or metallurgy. The images are by artists and from different contexts and times. It has definitely been an inspiration with the work that I’ve been exploring during PADA, so there is a nice link here. And you? 

E: I’m reading two non-fiction books and a novel at the same time. I’ve just started the novel, so I can’t tell you too much yet, but it’s Gun Island by Amitav Ghosh. From what I know so far, it’s set in the Sundarbans and weaves together climate change, migration, and myth in a contemporary story. One of the non-fiction books is Wild Blue Media by Melody Jue. It’s a dense read! She reimagines media theory by looking at the ocean as a media environment, challenging the usual land-based ways of thinking about media. The other non-fiction is The Underworld by Susan Casey, which is much easier to get into. It’s about deep-sea exploration and dives into the stories of scientists and “explorers”, it’s about scientific progress, and the push to discover “new” depths. I find it fascinating because it’s really about the intrinsic motivation to enter spaces that humans aren’t meant to inhabit.

D: How does reading feed into your practice?

E: It depends on the project, but reading definitely helps to crystallise thoughts and feed curiosity. Some books are full of references, and sometimes it’s really helpful to find one very specific story and build the rest of my ideas around that. Finding a book that speaks to what I’m interested in really helps me get moving. It can also help with imposter syndrome: when ideas in my head feel intuitive or unformed, reading something that articulates similar ideas makes me feel more confident to work through them. I don’t think it should be necessary, but it’s definitely helpful to see my thoughts reflected in words.

D: I agree with that too. Especially if you are looking through research that requires more context, evidence, or specialist forms of knowledge.

E: What does research look like in your practice?

D: Research for me begins with a curiosity, something I’ve seen, heard, or experienced. I then try to find references or readings that will help me understand what that curiosity is about. Sometimes, this also looks like using online found footage to make a video work that gives a bit of logic or narrative. For example, going back to books that you are currently reading - oceans and deep sea exploration - there was a period of time I became really obsessed with the bathyscaphe Trieste. So I found the recorded transcript of the dialogue between Piccard and Don Walsch during their descent to the Challenger Deep in the Mariana Trench. I made a video using this transcript and found footage to understand the enormous amount of pressure that trip would have taken. I used this same technique recently as well to explore the Caspian Sea - a collaboration with London based Old Mountain Assembly. And you? Do you research mostly through reading? 

E: That’s such a coincidence, that bathyscaphe is mentioned in the Underworld book I am reading. My research usually does start with reading, and I try to keep that going throughout the whole process. But at some point, I also want to get out into the world: talking to experts like biologists and ecologists, conducting interviews, visiting city archives or research institutes. I also do material research, but I would like to integrate that into my routine earlier in the process! 

I’m curious about the thematics in your work, are there recurring themes or questions that run through your practice?

D: Yes. There are two main themes in my work. One is the investigation of motion through material-based research, which I’ve been exploring at PADA, seeing how materials define the work. The other is inspired by research on future supercontinents: I wrote a short fictional text that now informs moving image work. An early version was made at PADA two years ago, using scanned objects from various industrial sites, as part of The City of Rare Earths series.

The City of Rare Earths is about scavenging. In the text, undefined creatures dig through the ground, finding and piling objects - a process that parallels what we do at PADA, collecting materials to reuse. The 3D scans for the video work were taken from remnants in the industrial park and nearby areas. 

This and next month I’m creating a new video for a show in December, based on the texts of five fictional cities. Each city has its own atmosphere and is named after a natural resource like coal or copper, and reflects its finiteness.

Still from film, and process during the PADA International programme. Esther van der Heijden, 2024

E: Do the stories/videos describe the city, or on a character’s experience in it?

D: It starts off as descriptions, where you get glimpses into these different cities. The text helps to further describe what you are looking at. There is a last segment in the text, which I haven't decided whether or not I'm going to include yet, is the revelation of the ‘narrator’ who has been describing these cities. Perhaps it is more like a collection of memories.

E: Have you read Italo Calvino’s Invisible Cities?

D: Yes, the book is a big inspiration.

E: I love that book, I refer to one of the cities in one of my projects!

D: What about you? What are the thematics in your work, are there recurring themes or questions?

E: My work looks at the ways environmental and economic pressures transform aquatic ecosystems, and the human and non-human lives entangled within them. I often begin with close studies: a sponge-diver’s body under strain, an amphibian relying on a precise chemical balance, the rapid adaptation of planktonic snails to ocean acidification, or the arrival of invasive species. From these specific stories, I unfold broader, more abstract reflections on what it means to live through ecological crises. This approach also shapes how I choose my materials and media. The materials I use change depending on the project — ceramics, marble, copper, textiles, drawings. 

For example, during my first time at PADA, I became interested in local biologists’ research on fish contamination in the estuary. They studied the eyes of a specific fish species in Barreiro, which reveal high levels of metal contamination because their wide surface area is in constant contact with the water. I was struck by how the industrial pollution in Barreiro seems “contained,” yet is directly connected to the Tagus. In response, I created a textile work dyed in pyrite-contaminated water from the industrial park, right next to the Tagus. The textile could be read as a skin, yet it also leaks out of its frame, reflecting on the impossibility of containing the pyrite pollution. I also made a copper piece resembling fragile, shattered, yet sharp protective armor/diving suit. Both works question the supposed separation between the body and its (polluted) environment. In this way, the choice of materials becomes an integral part of the work’s meaning. What kinds of materials or media do you work with?

Works created during the International Residency. Esther van der Heijden, 2024

D: For the most part I work with sculpture and moving image, at least this hasn't changed now for a while. A combination of the both. Much of the work is produced either first digitally and then into a material space or vice versa, and I really play with that as a format quite a lot. Instead of one medium or material, I try to find the thing that is most feasible at the time in which the work is being produced. For the alumni it was a combination of using metal work and 3D printed pieces. 

E: Do your sculptures also play a role in your video work, or are the two separate?

D: I think more and more there is a dialogue. So the most recent group show here in London was a sculptural piece that was first made by hand and then 3D-modelled into the video. What about you?

D: I can see why they have introduced us up for the long range studio visits! 

I was being asked during the alumni residency whether or not I had a plan…how intuitive or planned is your process? For me I think there is a time and place for both methods of working. With the work I was undertaking at PADA alumni just last month I was working to a loose plan while being open to intuition. I came with the intention of wanting to understand motion - how do you make it, what kind of motion? So I started with testing ideas out quickly using the scrap bits in the workshop. From here you tweak - where does length and weight play a part? What happens when you create more or less tension? Once I got a better understanding of this I was ready to make the next version. So I think, what tools do I need? What materials or hardware do I need? What are the dimensions? Using a bit of masking tape to figure this out. 

One of things I got to explore during the residency was making specific parts that could join metal together in a precise way. For this, I spent time sketching, measuring, and making 3D drawings for 3D printing. I was able to do this at FabLab in Lisbon which was great, I got two days of being able to walk around the city while waiting for parts to finish printing. Then comes the fun part! Seeing things start to come together. I was using steel rods and tubes for the structure. Then you can really begin to test, what are the mechanisms? Can you add more weight here or less using a longer or shorter piece. Is it really heavy? Once I was happy with the motion of the piece I could start to make final decisions on what parts to cut, and weld. This is what I ended up with. The outcome of working to a loose plan but also allowing room for error, experimentation, and intuition. The aesthetic language feels connected to the work I had produced during the international residency two years ago but a bit more refined. 

What are you currently working on? What kind of questions or ideas are you exploring? You mentioned during your time at PADA, you were doing a lot of work with marble? 

E: Similar! My video work is usually more specific and narrative-driven, while the sculptural pieces are often more abstract and developed alongside the making of the film. They complement each other within an installation, and sometimes even collide: I might use sculptures as props, or extreme close-ups of them find their way into the video.

PADA Alumni Motion Studies 2025. Deborah Tchoudjinoff.

E: Yes, I started researching the history of diving a few years ago, and one of the earliest recorded methods involved using marble or other stone weights. Divers would use these stones to descend and ascend more quickly, and the weight was attached to a rope so someone on the boat could pull them back up again. I became interested in how different diving techniques shape the diving experience. At the same time, I was fascinated by how marble itself is formed (tiny shells and coral remnants compressed over time) and how that material connection also relates back to the sea. I wasn’t entirely sure how it would turn into a project, but I found an amazing marble residency in Greece. And some of the Greek islands also have a rich history of diving with this method, to collect sponges. Learning to work with marble appealed to me because it demands patience and material knowledge. I wanted to learn the sculpting techniques, study the old diving practices, and I had some vague ideas of creating marble reliefs that could communicate this history.

In the end, I didn’t make those reliefs, at least not yet, but I did explore the sponge diving tradition on another Greek island and learned the basic skills of sculpting in marble. I came across a folk dance that honors the sponge divers, those who were injured, paralyzed, and spent eight months a year working under very tough conditions. That dance has now become central to my new project, and I’m still figuring out how marble can be part of the installation.

Installation at The Geological Unconscious HyphaHQ. Deborah Tchoudjinoff, London 2025

Presentation, and work in progress at the Alumni programme. Esther van der Heijden, 2025

D: But it's related. They kind of follow each other in this really nice way, right? It opens up more avenues of questions or ideas. 

E: Absolutely! It’s interesting to see how one idea can lead into another. Going over it like this has been a nice reflection on my ideas developed. 

D: I’m glad to hear that - it was great to be in dialogue with you over these things and share ideas. It also gave me a chance to reflect on my own process. 

E: I completely agree. It was nice to see how our topics of interest, methodologies and material-use intersect! I’ve really enjoyed this long-range studio visit, and I’m very excited to see where your next projects lead!

Deborah Tchoudjinoff and Esther are both PADA Alumni. They were in the International Residency in 2023 and 2024, respectively. They also were part of the Alumni Studio program.

We thank them for participating in this Long Range Studio Visit.